The Artist’s Interview: Kate Lab, Poet and Artist
Interview with Kimberly Phinney
The Way Back to Ourselves is proud to present:
T H E A R T I S T ’ S I N T E R V I E W
with Kate Lab, artist, poet and founder of Kate Goes Creating
KIMBERLY: We always like to play a little “getting to know you” game before we get started that’s unique to each artist. For you, we thought it’d be fun to do “Five Fast Facts.” Are you ready?
On your mark, get set, GO…
Favorite book(s) you’ve read lately:
KATE: I have been listening again to the Harry Potter series. It’s perfect as the weather gets chillier in fall and one of my favorite book series. I’ve got a longer monologue about how I think it’s a modern-day classic. I have also reread over the summer Seeing Beauty and Saying Beautifully by John Piper. It is such an encouragement to continue creative work.
KIMBERLY: Top five artists and/or writers who have influenced you:
KATE: George Herbert, C.S. Lewis, Sarah Sparks, Tim Keller, Jon Foremen, and John Piper. (Whoops, I said six!)
KIMBERLY: Ohhh, nice! We have a couple of greats in common: C.S. Lewis and Tim Keller! Okay, so if you were stranded on an island, and you could only have three things with you, what would they be?
KATE: My spice cabinet, a way to listen and stream music, and I feel very old, but my pillow! Haha!
KIMBERLY: Haha! That’s funny. You’re selling me on the pillow, my friend. Okay—Favorite verse or passage of the Bible:
KATE: Romans 8, I think, will always be a favorite of mine: “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.” Oh, so good! It might surprise folks to hear that I am a perfectionist, as I am habitually late and I’m not meticulously clean or organized. But in the areas where perfectionism manifests in my life, I’m tempted to sit in the shame and condemnation that Romans 8 addresses and gives me freedom from. And that chapter just gets better and better.
KIMBERLY: Yes, so good. Food for my perfectionist soul. Thank you! Alright—Most adventurous thing you’ve ever done:
KATE: Honestly, I’ve been very fortunate to be able to travel and adventure to many places but when I think back, marriage has felt like the biggest adventure - trusting someone with your heart, choosing them above all others. We also got married the summer after we both graduated college and moved across the country. We had almost no money, one borrowed beater truck, a tiny apartment with no internet, and my old phone ( a dumb phone with no internet access or GPS.) I highly recommend it to new couples without sarcasm and recollect it with fondness. What an adventure.
KIMBERLY: Oh, I love your take on adventure. You know what? Marriage is probably my greatest adventure, too! Along will standing on a waterfall’s edge and founding TWBTO, I think... It all requires risk, doesn’t it?
Okay, now that we got all that fun out of the way, is there anything else you’d love our readers to know about you before we dive into the deep stuff?
KATE: A fun fact that I like to bring out at parties is I am an identical twin. And my twin, Sarah (of @sarahsparksmusic on Instagram), is in many ways a more talented version of me. She is a brilliant songwriter and artist living with her husband in Hawaii. We have a lot of fun working together on creative projects, giving and receiving feedback, help, and hype. It’s a joy to have an honest, talented friend and sister to give encouragement and critique when you have tunnel vision or fog in the creative process.
KIMBERLY: Loved that! So much fun! I am sure it’s so special to have a twin and creative cheerleader. And just so you know, you are BOTH equally talented. I LOVE your work—as in I am a fan!
Okay, so we always like to know the “how” behind the artist. How exactly did you become the faithful artist you are now? Was it something you’ve done since you were a child or was this artist's life a sort of surprise for you? What did that journey look like?
KATE:
I’ll start by saying that I don’t feel like I have arrived as an artist, in keeping with the traveling metaphor. I’m still on the journey of writing and making. I feel simultaneously proud of my work and glad to share it with the world and astounded and humbled that it’s helpful to other people.
That said, I have always loved art and creative endeavors. I took every art class offered at my high school. I’m near the end of five children in a pastor’s family, and although we did not have a lot of extra money, my mom always invested in art materials for me. That was something from a young age I saw was valuable through the actions of my mom. And another priority even when money was tight in our family was traveling, seeing the mountains of the west and the rolling hills of the east. The appreciation of beauty and pursuit of excellence I saw modeled by my dad, even though my dad has little natural ability or passion in the typical artistic endeavors of drawing or music making, was equally influential. These two examples showed me the value of beauty and its cultivation as a good and necessary part of the Christian life instead of beauty and art as a waste of time, energy, and resources.
Only in the last five years have I consistently expressed and processed through creative writing—and poetry specifically. I have always been impressed by and enjoyed poetry, but I was afraid of beginning as a mediocre poet. My perspective changed when my son was born five years ago. I thought, "Even if my poetry isn't good, it might be worthwhile to him, written for him and by his mom." It gave me the confidence to practice something I enjoyed without beginning as an expert - This is a very foolish mentality. Do not imitate me in this. Everyone starts a new skill as a beginner. And learning a new creative skill that you enjoy is valuable in itself, without a perfect product to show for it.
KIMBERLY: I can’t tell you how much I love everything you just shared. Like most of us artist types, it’s so crazy to hear such amazing talents, like you, talk about “not arriving” or some type of “imposter syndrome.” From an outside perspective, I see your art and message and think, “Wow! I wish I had her beautiful talent!”
So, speaking of talent, you are an artist of many trades. In fact, I wasn’t sure what I should call you because you really do it all: write, draw, paint, design, and sing. And maybe there’s more we don’t know about! Of all of these many artistic hats, which one do you most identify with and why?
“At this point, I identify most as a poet. God is opening and closing doors in such a way to illuminate that trade as what is most unique and personally profitable for me. Writing poetry has become an invaluable process of prayer and reflection in my own life. It allows me to feel with freedom, pursue and reflect on the truth of Scripture, and then release the experience rooted in the character of God and the hope of heaven.”
God placed me in the right age to share through social media. It has been a sweet gift to share poetry with other people without feeling they have an obligation to engage or enjoy it. People are free to follow or unfollow. To consume as much as is helpful without pretense. I know for some creatives social media has been almost a monster of pressure for constant content creation. I understand that pressure, but it has been a great tool for me to slowly grow an audience interested and encouraged by a public poetic prayer record with universal experiences of pain, tension, grief, hope, and joy. I’m very grateful.
KIMBERLY: That is so perfectly said, and it’s exactly how I experience your page. I have a few favorite artists I keep up with very closely. You are one of them because you breathe beauty and faith into my life with your corner of the Internet that you so faithfully steward.
In fact, your poetic prayers are so moving and resonating. It’s almost as if you are a modern psalmist. Where do they come from and what are your inspirations? Do you have a few words for us today that are on your heart–maybe something brand new?
KATE:
Poetry and poetic prayer have become a part of my study and devotional life. I am usually struck by a phrase, new learning, conviction, or experience I want to write down and process. Sometimes it’s an experience of incredible joy or incredible grief, sometimes it’s a response to a sermon or study. Writing down what I'm feeling in poetic form helps me to name and understand my emotions, why I feel them, and how it is being used right now by God for my good and his glory. It helps to cement a conviction of what I see God teaching me. I can wrestle with words, timing, and format in a way that relieves emotional congestion and then let go of it. I often write and edit through tears. Writing, editing, and designing a poem often causes me to feel physical and emotional relief, like an open-handed exhale to God, “I submit to your sovereign hand in this, You are good, powerful, and in control. I trust you.”
Recently, I have witnessed two beautiful saints who are being made more beautiful as they trust God through specific seasons of trial and suffering. And I have an example in my own life of specific suffering that I wish I didn’t have. I don’t like it. It’s not the suffering I would choose for myself. And yet, I can see ways already God is using it in my own life to make me more like Jesus - more kind and gracious with others, more rooted in my identity with Christ instead of human measurements of success, more dependent on God, and more humble. Every one of those outcomes is a miraculous work of the Holy Spirit. We don’t always see any earthly redemption of our pain, but in this area, I definitely can. This is the start of a poem brewing for the last several months on the heart change I’m experiencing - trusting God while still feeling resistant transforming into an easier rest and submission in the sovereign hand of God.
Like the Spurgeon quote, I am learning to “kiss the wave that throws me against the Rock of Ages.”
I have hated this cross
On my shoulders,
But I now can feel how the shape fits.
I can see the ways already
My God is glorified in this.
At first, the burden was unbearable.
Too much to hold by my own might.
As He wrote themes into my story
That I wouldn’t choose to write.
But as my heart and eyes adjusted,
In this darkness, I see light.
My God’s kindness to me and sufficiency
glow like the stars and moon at night.
And I look down to see,
My own two feet,
match a treaded path
Ahead of me,
I’m not alone. I’m in good company
On this Man of Sorrows’
Walk to Calvary.
I’m tired but greater joy is coming!
This pain is not the end.
All my suffering will be redeemed.
All broken things will mend.
I’ve read the ending of the story,
And I know well who holds the pen.
So though every day I’m dying
Still, I will not end in death.
Even under this heavy burden,
I can submit
and rest.
KIMBERLY: This all so deeply moving and powerful. Everything you have shared resonated with me so deeply in my own suffering season. I don’t want it for myself, but I, too, have learned that this is God’s will for my life and that I will “kiss the wave that throws me against the Rock of Ages.” Thank you for sharing your heart with us so vulnerably. It’s a true gift.
So, to shift a little to a more practical question, what advice might you have for all of those faithful creatives out there who are trying to make it like you have with your mission, brand, and website? What’s the best advice you can give on making creativity happen and dreams come true?
KATE: The older I get the more I’m convinced that Christian creativity has value even if people don’t want to buy it. The process of creativity is worthwhile in itself. If you’re not concerned with making or growing a business, my advice is to make what you love making. That said, it’s hard to invest a lot of time and money into something in this life with no financial return. I needed creative work in my own life to be both profitable personally (I enjoy it) and financially profitable (a growing audience is interested in buying it).
My advice for folks wanting to grow a creative business is to keep creating - As you create more and more, it will become clearer what you love doing, what you’re best at, and what and when people want to buy. Strategically look at the year for when people spend more on gifts and artwork - Mother’s Day, Christmas, etc., and consider how your creative work could be the solution to a problem. Custom work is often a great way to make your style valuable and personal to an audience, especially as you begin a brand or platform. Learn from the business models of creatives you admire.
KIMBERLY: Ohhh, I love your perspective on Christian art being of inherent value. That’s such an important place to start as faithful creatives. It’s the foundation. We must first be true to ourselves as artists and find our way—then what we offer the world is something we can faithfully stand behind. And I love your practical advice, too!
Clearly, your faith is at the center of your life and the art you produce. Do you see a separation between good art and faith? Or, in other words, do you think good art can exist separately from faith? Or do you think one needs the other?
KATE:
I think anything beautiful and true is from and of God, and I think God has used all kinds of people throughout human history to create good art. The most famous creative works in music, writing, and physical art are not all done by mature Christians. So, I think good art can exist separate from faith because God can and does use anyone to show his glory, whether or not an artist intends to. A great photographer capturing a beautiful sunset cannot help but capture God’s creative work, whether or not it’s the photographer’s intention. The heavens declare God’s glory and the sky declares the work of his hands (Psalm 19:1).
And I will, as a Christian, respond to art through the lens of God’s truth. I will read books, watch movies, view paintings, listen to music, and read poetry with the interpretation filter of my worldview. So good art will point me to God’s glory no matter the artist’s intention.
Many artists—writers, lyricists, painters—throughout history have also captured suffering in compelling ways, which is important to understand the truth of a world broken by sin. That said, I think the best and most moving art understands and feels the darkness of a broken world with hope in its redemption. And I don’t think a creative can have real hope without salvation through Jesus and the future hope of the redemption of the world. But even a broken clock is right twice a day, and I’ve been moved by creative work where there is no good reason to believe the maker has ever heard the gospel and yet, the maker created a piece that displayed elements and themes of the gospel with incredible clarity and beauty.
In my own work, faith is at the center of the art I make. Even for pieces with no explicit Christian message, it is still a conversation between me and God. And referencing the quote from “Chariots of Fire,” I feel God’s pleasure when I create, I feel his joy as I enjoy something he has made me good at, and as I imitate him in creativity. I look forward to what creating will look like in heaven without the physical limitations of time and earthly bodies, and without the battle against sin and flesh that manifests in both insecurity and pride. What a day that will be!
KIMBERLY: I couldn’t love this more. You unpacked a very deep, philosophical question so thoughtfully. And I tend to completely agree. There is a sacred heartbeat in the profane, mundane, and most unlikely of places. Even brokenness calls out for redemption. And God’s beauty and handiwork can be exalted through all hands—through his divine common grace.
So, it seems you are extremely productive and busy–creating beautiful art in the margins of life, caring for your young family, managing your social media presence, and running your website and business. How do you keep your productivity high and of high quality? How do you balance it all?
KATE: I don’t. Especially for weeks leading up to and during a physical product sale or a digital study, there’s not much balance. The laundry is piled high, the house is a mess, we eat hot dog buns for lunch, and I’m making a pot of coffee at 9:00 PM in anticipation of a late night. I do have the privilege of not depending on my creative income as the primary income of our family, so I’m free when the kids are sick, it’s a busy week of work or ministry, or I don’t feel well physically to pause. And I love being productive, so again, God put me in the exact right time in technological history to be able to write, create, and post in a way that helps me to feel like I have finished a task.
KIMBERLY: As crazy as that all sounds, it’s so refreshing (and relieving) to hear. The glowing allure of social media is all too good at making others’ lives look impeccable. It’s good to know other artists are living crazy, messy, beautiful lives. It’s not about order and perfection; it’s about presence and creating in the margins. Sounds like your house looks and feels just like mine midweek when my husband is working long hours, and I’m juggling motherhood, my health, and this big ol’ love affair with the creative life—right dog to hotdogs and buns.
So, I must ask, any piece of art or writing you are most proud of lately? Or is there a particular piece you’ve made that you feel like encapsulates your entire self as an artist or the vision of your ministry?
KATE: The poetic work I’m most proud of is the corporate lament poetry. There are a lot of examples of corporate lament in scripture, but it’s often missing from the experience of Sunday worship or even Christian relationships. We’re commanded to “Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep,” (Romans 12:15) but we’re probably better at smiling in public than crying in public. I like the idea of providing words and tools to Christians who want to grieve with folks who are grieving, but don’t know what to say. And I want to specifically use “we” “us” and “our” to bring people together in grief (which often feels completely isolating.) This is what “we” feel, this is what “we” know, this is who “we” put our trust in corporately.
The experience of sin-sick bodies and a sin-stained world is a communal experience for believers, as is joy and hope! I love hearing that a lament card I wrote and designed was a tool to reach out to someone in grief. I like the idea of removing obstacles of loving each other well even in hard seasons.
I’ve also written several laments for disappointed hopes and dreams, for good things that have been withheld by a good and sovereign God that I think helps people grieve well and then trust God. It’s such a universal experience but it’s sometimes hard to know how to grieve well in it.
KIMBERLY: These prayers are a true gift—to those who suffer and to those who grieve. I know they have comforted me. Your prayer and poems give us words we may not have so that we can cling to hope and faith.
And speaking of faith, let’s talk about life and faith, but this time with a little twist…
What’s the best and worst advice you’ve ever been given about life and/or faith? We included the “worst” here because there could be some really cool conversations to be had. For instance, some advice sounds amazing at the time, but then once we live a few years, we realize just how untrue or unwise it was.
KATE:
No one perfectly understands how you feel except Jesus. Even two people going through identical situations will feel differently about it. At the same time, we all have the same scope of emotions as humans. We can feel with one another without identical experiences. We can use the tools of communication and empathy to understand one another. Don't let different experiences keep you from engaging in someone else's joy and grief.
Do you love and care for the person? Have you felt sorrow or joy before? Joy and grief can be experienced simultaneously. Ask questions and seek understanding. Much of my lament poetry is written for my friends and family, not from my personal life experience. But it is also very personal because I love my friends and family, and they invite me to rejoice and grieve with them. My parents both have modeled this, and my dad has said these words to me.
Advice or a phrase I really don’t like is similar, “You’ll understand when you’re older.” There is no better way to stop a conversation in its tracks than to separate the participating people with an insurmountable obstacle of time. There might even be elements of truth in this phrase, but it’s completely unhelpful to learning and empathy.
KIMBERLY: I think you are hitting on some very wise and profound understandings. I have learned myself that when someone is suffering, our claim to needing “understanding” is not at all a prerequisite for extending empathy or compassion. There will simply be things in life we cannot fully understand and to require “belief” and “understanding” before we extend compassion or empathy makes someone else’s suffering about us, and we miss the mark. Even though Christ (as God) knew and understood all things, his knee-jerk response (in his human form) was always to seek out the suffering, lean into their world and pain, and offer comfort, compassion, and even healing. His example is the ideal in how we might receive one another. And I love what you said about “You’ll understand when you’re older.” I’ve seen children who intuitively have more understanding or “knowing” than some grown adults I know. Compassion and empathy can be sought at any age, but aging does not guarantee we will possess them.
Wow!! This interview has been amazing. So deep, beautiful, and life-giving. We are so honored to have you as our featured artist this month. But before we go, we always like to ask, what’s going on in your world right now? How can readers connect with you? Anything fun or exciting coming up that you’d like to share? We’d love to hear about it!
KATE: I’m working on the Advent study and artwork for this Christmas, and I’m really excited about it. I’ll share more info through my social media, like Instagram, and on my Substack for those who are interested!
KIMBERLY: Thank you so much, Kate.
VISIT KATE GOES CREATING TO LEARN MORE ABOUT KATE, READ HER WRITING, AND PURCHASE HER POETIC ART. YOU CAN FIND KATE ON INSTAGRAM @KATEGOESCREATING. COME VISIT HER! SHE’D LOVE TO CONNECT WITH YOU!
KATE LAB
Kate Lab is a poet and artist based in Lancaster, PA. She is the founder of Kate Creates, where she publishes original art and poetic work, lament and grief cards, and poetic devotionals and studies. Kate graduated from Moody Bible Institute with her BA in Biblical Theology. She is the wife of Joe, who pastors a small church in Lancaster, and the mom to two precious children, Ethan and Eliza. Kate started writing poetic prayers to process the pain and grief of a broken world with the security and hope of a good and powerful God who will redeem it.
Kate is passionate about incorporating art, creativity, and beauty into Bible study. She has authored Advent, Lent, and Easter Week studies with her companion artwork, poetry, and original music by her twin sister, singer-songwriter Sarah Sparks. Kate’s poetry has been featured through several online platforms like Risen Motherhood and Well Watered Women. She aims to make modern and accessible poetry that shows the universal experiences of life in a sin-stained world with the hope of salvation and redemption through Jesus.